I posted part of this as a response to another thread, but someone pointed out to me that it probably shouldn’t be buried on page 4 of a forgotten thread, so I thought I’d post it as a new thread and expand on it a bit.
Let me enlighten you to a few uncomfortable truths that you absolutely must accept if you ever want to have a good relationship with a woman, ever. Guys seem to have the hardest time understanding and accepting these things, and nearly every this one girl/one-itis post, nearly every “I just can’t get past my limiting beliefs” post, and nearly every “This doesn’t work for me” post can be addressed by understanding and accepting one or more of these truths. These are in no particular order, so don’t take them as ordered by importance or whatever. I’m going to format it like a question was posed, and then answer it.
How do I know if she wants to be my girlfriend, or if she just wants to be friends?
Women know within the first 5 minutes whether they want to have sex with you or not. If they don’t, it’s an uphill battle changing their minds. If they do, all you have to do is not fuck it up and you’ll be having sex with her as soon as she is comfortable enough with you. A woman is never undecided about it after you’ve been hanging out, talking to her for an hour or so, she is never saying to herself “Do I like this guy? Do I want to be his friend or his lover?”, that’s just not how it works. She decides immediately which category you fit into, and if she puts you into the lover category, it is up to you to show her that you’re man enough to fill that role. If not, you kind of automatically fall into the friend category. This is why you should treat every woman as if you are going to be her lover. Sarge on like you expect to lay her, and if she has already decided that she never wants to fuck you, she’ll let you know.
Women, by and large, want men to take charge and make decisions. If you don’t take charge and decide that you’re going to be her lover, you won’t be. It’s that simple. The man who sits there and says “What does she want? Does she want me to touch her? Does she want me to kiss her? Does she want me to fuck her?”, is a man who never has a satisfying relationship with a woman.
How do I be her friend if she doesn’t want to be more than friends?
Ok, first of all this is a terrible question that should never even enter your head. You should meet every woman with the intention of being her friend AND her lover (assuming she’s attractive and interesting enough). If the chemistry just isn’t there for one or both of you, you should still be able to be friends with her.
It is easy to try to be her lover, fuck it up, and become her friend. It is extremely difficult to try to be her friend, and then decide later that you want to be her lover. So if there is any chance whatsoever that you could have a sexual/romantic relationship with a woman, and I mean any minuscule iota of a chance, you behave as if you want to be her lover. Let her tell you she only wants to be friends after you fuck it up, and at least you tried. But going back to lovers from friends after you’ve fucked it up is extremely difficult.
What if I don’t want to fuck her on the first night? Or day 2? Or month 2?
If you are going to have a sexual relationship with a woman, it necessarily must happen within the first, say, 20 hours* of knowing her. Mystery Method teaches men how to do it in 4-10 hours, but you can take longer than that without blowing it. However, if you haven’t fucked her within about 20 hours, she has already decided that you’re not man enough to be her lover, because real men want sex and they seek it actively. In her mind, you have become an androgynous, sexless friend after 20 hours without making any moves. Unless you have a valid dis-qualifier, like one or both of you are in an exclusive relationship (and even that one is iffy), you should be having sex with her in under 20 hours. If she’s a friend of your girlfriend or something like that, then you still want to attract her as if you want to have sex with her, but you just can’t cross that line into actually trying to have sex with her until the disqualifier is nullified. So there are some circumstances where you might know her for longer, but once you have actually started trying to close, the clock is ticking.
The bottom line here is that if you don’t want sex there is something inherently inferior about you as a man, because the major biological drive for males of any species is reproduction. It is higher priority than feeding yourself, covering yourself from the weather, and even saving your own life. There is no way to spread your seed without a sex drive, which is why it is the most basic and fundamental biological imperative you have. If you don’t have a sex drive, work on that shit. You are not a man without it.
You can say that sex isn’t that important, that you’d rather have a relationship, but what you have to realize is that sex is how the relationship starts. Prior to sex, you’re just some guy, maybe with the potential to become a lover, but you’re not her lover until you are having sex. So if you want to have a relationship, you do that by first having sex with her. So, for those of you who say you don’t want to have casual sex with tons of women, not only are you liars trying to cover up some issue with your self-esteem, you are causing your own problems. You can’t know if a relationship is even possible with a woman until after you’ve had sex with her.
Additionally, bad sex can absolutely ruin a relationship. Not only does it lead to cheating, but it leads to all kinds of other arguments and disagreements and resentment that can and will spell the end no matter how strong the rest of the relationship is. You have to know what the sex will be like, and whether you can both handle what it will be before you can know if you’ll be able to maintain a lasting relationship. If you postpone sex until later, not only do you risk getting LJBF’d, but what if everything is perfect, and then you realize that you are completely incompatible in bed? The relationship is already over, it’s just a question of how long you intend to drag out the death throes.
(* 20 hours means time together, not total time passed. e.g. a 30 minute date, a 2 hour date, a 3 hour date, and a 2.5 hour date = 8 hours, even it they happen over a 2 week period)
I don’t want to have one night stands/bang every chick that comes along/etc, I only want to use TMM on “this one special girl”, how do I do everything right when she comes along?
This is important. The only way to get better at sex is to have more of it. The only way to get better at picking up women is to pick up more of them. Your approach is fundamentally flawed. You can’t be doing this to learn “how to spark attraction for those few really great chicks I happen to meet…”.(quote from a previous thread where I was answering a posters specific question)
That’s like saying you want to learn how to throw knives but you don’t want to have to throw them every day. You just want to learn so that when that once in a lifetime chance comes up to get up on stage and throw knives at the woman on the rotating wheel, you’ll be able to do it. But if you don’t throw knives every day leading up to that moment, you’re going to skewer the bitch. Same thing here. If you want to be able to attract that special woman, you’re going to have to practice on hundreds of un-special women to get it right. If you want to impress that special woman in bed, you’re going to have to practice on, at the very least, dozens of un-special women to get it right. If you want to have a good relationship with that one special woman, you have to practice having a relationship with dozens of un-special women in order to learn how. It’s just a fact of life.
Let me give you a personal example. I breathe fire. I’m a singer in a band, and as part of my stage I act I breathe fire using 151 proof rum. The shit tastes horrible, it burns your mouth and leaves your lips numb, and is quite a shock to the system when you have to hold a mouthful for 20-30 seconds while you time your burst correctly. It’s 75% pure alcohol after all. But if I can’t stand holding the shit in my mouth, if my eyes are tearing up and my tongue feels like it’s on fire, I’m going to miss my mark. So you know what I do? I breathe fire at home, when no one is around. It’s not fun (well, maybe a little bit ), it doesn’t entertain anyone, I do it to get used to the feel of the fuel in my mouth, to practice doing it safely, and to learn how best to get a good, impressive flame. That way, when I’m on stage, and the show is going on, and everything’s hitting on all cylinders, and I have 300 people looking at me, waiting to see what I’m going to do, I blow an 8 foot flame over the crowd’s heads, and people oooh and ahhh, and panties drop all over the room like I just pulled out a 14 inch cock. When the time comes, I can do it right because I spent time practicing, even when the crowd I was preparing for wasn’t there. I prepare, because the worst possible thing that could happen would be for the moment to arrive when I’m supposed to do my thing, and instead of blowing an impressive flame, I blow out my torch, gag on the rum, cough pure alcohol all over the crowd, and look like an asshole. Or worse, accidentally set my face on fire, burn down the stage, and ruin the whole show. Instead of everyone being impressed, everyone would think I’m a dumb asshole and they’d never come see me again. If you don’t put in the time preparing, you will, without a doubt, fuck it up when that “special” woman comes along.
This girl is different/special/whatever…
This might be the most important point of all. No one woman is “special”. Sorry, hate to break your pretty little world view, but women are all the same. Each one is a little different when it comes to personality, intelligence, quirks, etc, just like men, but they all have the same drives, the same needs, the same emotions. This one or that one might be more to your taste or be more compatible for you because of your own tastes and quirks, but that doesn’t make her special, just more tasty or compatible. She’s not special, just better for you.
This is something my friend and I have discussed a lot lately, because he’s having this same problem. There’s “this one girl” that he likes, he has a lot of respect for her based on her personality, she’s really his type, everything. Seems to be a great match. He absolutely refuses to game her, and won’t even make a move to get to know her better. It’s not one-itis, it’s wishful one-itis. He’s afraid that when he starts talking to her and putting the moves on her, she’ll go for exactly the same things that women he has no respect for always go for, and he will lose his respect for her because she’s just like every other woman. You have to realize that this is your problem, not women’s. They are what they are, and you can rely on them to continue to be what they are. It is your own limiting beliefs that make this a bad thing. The truth is, women are women, and they all want the same thing: a good man. It doesn’t matter if it’s a party girl you met in a bar or your dream girl that you met in church, they both want the same thing. And if you can come across like a good man, they will both fall for you in exactly the same way. To see that as a negative is simply selling yourself short.
How do I change her/improve our sex life/etc? Everything is great except one thing…
You set the tone for the entire relationship in the first few hours. If you meet her and show her a good time and be nice and all of that crap, but you’re faking it, a couple months later when you’ve dropped the fake front the relationship will fall apart. She expected you to be the guy she met, turns out you were someone else. So be real, be yourself, and don’t do things on a first date that you wouldn’t do 2 years into the relationship. Same goes for her. After you date a bunch of people your bullshit detector will become more calibrated, and you’ll be able to tell when she’s putting up a front to impress you. There’s nothing wrong with putting up a front, as long as you or she are willing to maintain it throughout the entire relationship.
As an example, there’s a girl I’m seeing right now, and every time she’s at my house, when she goes to the bathroom, she’ll go to the farthest bathroom from wherever I am and run the water in the sink while she pees. I asked her to quit it. I was married for more than a decade, and I do happen to pee occasionally myself, so hearing a woman pee doesn’t offend me in any way. I’d prefer she be comfortable and drop the front. I know women pee, fart, shit, and do all kinds of other disgusting stuff, and while I don’t particularly want to see her doing any of that stuff, I’m not going to be offended if I accidentally overhear something. She said she’d prefer not to, and I gave her the whole thing about “hypothetically, would you still do that a year, or two, or ten, from now?”, and she said she would. Fine, if she’s willing to maintain the front that she doesn’t do anything disgusting, I’m happy to have a girl who never does anything disgusting in front of me. But if/when she drops it, I’m gonna call her on it. Count on it. She’s setting my expectations now, and I’ll hold her to them.
That also means you set the tone for the sex in the relationship. If you start out a meat and potatoes man, wait a month to fuck her, and then progress to straight missionary every other week or whatever, that’s what you can expect for the rest of the relationship. However, if you nail her ass to the wall that first night, and blow her mind, and allow her to be sexually open with you without being judgmental or whatever, and set the tone of escalating sexuality, she will follow your lead and continue to escalate for the rest of the relationship. It is imperative to your happiness that she come away from that first time thinking she just had a religious experience. Lay the pipe right the first time and she’ll overlook your faults, excuse your behavior, and tolerate nearly anything. But what she won’t do is escalate later if you cheeze out on her the first time. In fact, she may never want to see you again. It is your responsibility to set the tone, and it is your responsibility to make sure you maintain it.
Guys, if you’re complaining that you’re in a relationship with a girl for 6 months and she still isn’t giving you head, tough shit. That’s an uphill battle. If you didn’t get head the first or second time you had sex, and you didn’t mention anything to her before the third time, you did it to yourself. You set the precedent that she doesn’t need to give you head, and she will stick to it. There’s a dumb phrase that I heard a lot in music growing up, and that is: Practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent. The point is that the things you do repeatedly become ingrained habit. Practicing an instrument with poor form will cause you to play with poor form. “Practicing” in a relationship with poor form will give you poor form in a relationship. Another way to say it that might be more understandable around these parts is: losing your frame in a relationship, even only for certain aspects of the relationship, gives in to her frame for that aspect of the relationship. If she’s not really into head, or if she’s had bad experiences in the past, or whatever, and you aren’t in control enough to get her to give you the chance to make it a good experience, it’s your own fault that you don’t get head. Period. Get over it. Accept the fact that head will always be, at best, a “special occasion” thing in this relationship, and let it go.
Now, none of this is to say that change isn’t possible. But it requires serious effort, tight game, and a willingness to walk away if she isn’t willing to make the changes you want. Plus, you have to be willing to make whatever changes she wants in exchange. Any good LTR is a series of compromises. It is your job to make sure that the compromises you make and expect her to make are ones that you can live with.
This girl is too nice to do the crazy stuff I want to do in bed…
No she isn’t. The primmest, most uptight, conservative woman in the world will say the nastiest shit in bed you’ve ever heard. She’ll shit on your chest if you tell her to. I know, she looks like a nice girl, you met her at church, she’s quiet and reserved, and really nice to everyone, she would never want to do nasty things in the bedroom, right?
You know what she really wants? You won’t like it, but I’m gonna tell you anyway. She wants you to carry her in your house, throw her on the bed, hold her hands behind her head, and put your cock in her mouth. She wants you to call her a dirty slut while you fuck her in the ass. She wants you to do anything and everything you can think of in the privacy of the bedroom, the nastier the better, and then be sweet and treat her like a lady in front of her friends. Of course she’ll tell them all about the nasty things you do to her, and they’ll be silently wishing a man would do those things to them and then be totally cool and quiet about it in public, instead of doing like their boyfriends do and telling the whole world about their nasty exploits and then being an asshole to them in public. Which is exactly why their boyfriends don’t get anal or oral, because they don’t want them telling the world about it. They just don’t feel comfortable and safe doing those things with them, out of fear of being exposed as a slut. Get it?
Women love and want sex, not just as much, but more than men do. They have the very same biological imperative that you do that makes them want sex, only ours is on all the time at, let’s say a 7 (on scale of 1-10), while a woman’s is at 5 most of the time, except 4 or 5 days a month when they are on 10. Several days a month they just go crazy for sex, and they will blow your mind with the stuff they are willing to do. They just want you to be non-judgmental about what goes on in the bedroom, and they want you to keep it to yourself when they do all the nasty things they want to do. All you have to do is enable them to be the nasty slut in the bedroom without exposing that side of her to the rest of the world.
So remember, every woman is a nasty slut. Every woman wants to be a nasty slut. That means your sister, your mom, your grandmother. They just don’t want their brother, their kids, or their grand kids to know about it, so they’ll only do it if they know that whoever they are doing it with won’t expose them. The nice girl is not too nice, she’ll do whatever you enable her to do.
When is the game over? How do I win the game? Etc…
Never. You don’t win. Ever. Honestly, a game is a bad metaphor, because “winning the game” is a non-sequitur in this case (look it up you inarticulate bastards). But don’t get disheartened, that doesn’t mean you’re wasting your time. The game is one of self-improvement, and you should never stop improving yourself. Learning to be a strong man and maintaining your frame isn’t a game you can play and win, it is something you have to work at every day for the rest of your life. It does get easier once you figure out how to do it in the first place, but that doesn’t mean you can stop putting effort into it. The game is over when you die… maybe. I haven’t done that yet, so I can’t say for sure.
This question comes from the same people who think that they can learn just enough game to hook that one perfect girl and then never think about it again. That’s just not how it works. This game is a process, and it’s a process of change. It never stops. The whole point is to become a man who is always in the process of becoming a better man. When you do that, others will see it in you, and they will respect you for it. And that is having game.
Am I as pathetic as I feel?
Yes, you are. You are always exactly as pathetic as you feel. If you feel pathetic, then you are pathetic. If you feel like superman, then you are superman. That how this shit works. When you hear people say that you need to be confident, that’s what they mean. If you feel pathetic, you aren’t confident, are you? If you feel confident, you can hardly think you’re pathetic. It’s all about your mental state. The upside here is that pickup is a positive feedback loop. What I mean by that is, when you successfully pick up a 6, you feel more confident about yourself for being successful. Now you have the confidence to pick up a 7, which makes you even more confident. Now 8s and 9s are “in your league”, because you’re confident that you can pick them up, and so on. So if you keep working it, and keep picking up the women you feel you deserve, you should see a steady improvement in both your mental state and the quality of women that you pick up consistently. Your relationships with them should get better and, if it’s what you’re looking for, longer. The sex should get better and better. It just keeps getting better. The first part is certainly the hardest, but that’s just how life is. Accept it and do the work, you’ll be glad you did for the rest of your life.
What if I don’t want to be an arrogant asshole to get women? I’m too nice to get women. Etc.
You don’t have to be. Let me break it down for you. The number one thing women say they want in a man is confidence. Now, they don’t know what they mean any more than you do, but I’ll explain it so you can understand it. Confidence is knowing that you are good. Knowing that you can do the things you want to do. Knowing that you have the will and perseverance to accomplish whatever you want to do. Knowing you can show this girl the time of her life, give her more orgasms than she ever has or ever will have in a single hour, make her feel like she has the best guy in the world. Knowing you are good. Arrogance is the overcompensation that comes from unjustified confidence. Someone who is arrogant may brag about their dick size or their exploits or whatever, because they are seeking validation from others. A truly competent man doesn’t need to brag. However, arrogance does require confidence, even if it is fake and unjustified. You can’t be arrogant without displaying confidence. And confidence is what women like. Since attraction is not a choice, it doesn’t matter if the confidence is real or justified, it flips the same switches either way.
So some people think that C/F means being an arrogant asshole, and they justify their mistake by the fact that they do actually get results with women by being an arrogant asshole. But ideally, what you want is the confidence without the arrogance. Yes, you can get women by being an asshole. But if you want to get quality women, and you want more than a ONS from them, you need to learn the difference between confidence and arrogance. Incidentally, I walk the line between confidence and arrogance daily, I can’t help it, I have Lead Singer Syndrome .
This question keeps coming up, and people keep saying “But what if I really am just a sweet, nice guy, how will I ever get women?” I am a sweet, nice guy. I’m so sweet I can hardly stand myself sometimes. I write poetry, bitches! I hold doors and light cigarettes, I buy flowers (rarely, but I do), I compliment women, I say the sweetest things. You’d hate me if you saw me in action.
This doesn’t contradict any of the method. It’s not that you can’t be sweet, it’s that you have to learn when it is appropriate to be sweet, and when it is appropriate to reign that shit in. Sometimes, telling a girl her smile makes your heart skip a beat is perfectly acceptable (awwww ). But that time is not on day 1 when you just met her. In fact, that’s something you should probably reserve until after you’ve had sex, and after you’ve decided that you want to keep her around. That way, when she tells her friends that you’re “the sweetest guy ever”, it’s after she’s already told them that you fucked her so good she almost crapped the bed in ecstasy. Now that’s a combination that will make women want you.
So be the nice guy. Be the sweet guy. But know when to stop being so sweet and nice, otherwise people will walk on you. And have the confidence to know that there isn’t another guy in the zip code who can rock her world like you can. Even if it’s not true. Fake it ’till you make it. While it’s arrogance, it will still get you laid until you can turn it into real confidence.
Think about the things I’ve said, because every bit of it is not just true, it is Truth with a capital T.